course every account of ever heard of him, just a truly decent dude. rob reiner, thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your memories of a great man that we lost. thank you. >> thanks chris. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now good evening. alex but to be incredibly funny

and decent is an entirely different order. really, truly lost someone special today. thank you, my friend. and thanks to you at home this evening. california congressman kevin mccarthy, the shortest, serving speaker of the house in over 140 years is ending his extraordinary 2023 by throwing in the towel. >> now it is time to pursue my passion in a new arena. while i'll be departing the house at the end of this year, i will never, ever give up fighting for this country that i love so much. >> if you blinked, you might have missed mr. mccarthy's 10-month term as the country's highest public elected official, and that's not because it was so short, it was entirely unproductive. mccarthy bargained away basically everything to win the speaker's gavel, and he got nothing in return for it. that is the lesson for people who court the far right, who do

the bidding of donald trump, who look the other way. and right now republicans all across the country are learning that lesson. remember trump's fake electors plot in the 2020 election? the coordinated effort to get fake slates of electors to cast pretend electoral votes for donald trump? well, those fake electors cosplayed those dramas in seven states. they got nothing for it, and they are now the subject of some very real investigations. in georgia fani willis has charged three of the 16 fake electors in that states as part of her conspiracy case against donald trump. in michigan 15 fake electors have been charged by the state's attorney general. one of them is already cooperating with prosecutors. today in nevada a grand jury announced that it has indicted six of nevada's fake electors. all of those cases are making their way through the courts. and in the state of wisconsin we

finally got something we have not yet seen, accountability. today donald trump's ten republican fake electors in the state of wisconsin officially agreed to settle a lawsuit over their election forgery. those ten republican fake electors have agreed to withdraw their fake documents. they have agreed to acknowledge that joe biden won the 2020 presidential election. three years later. and they have all agreed to never serve as presidential electors in any election where donald trump is on the ballot. so all of that is meaningful, and it is long overdue, but it is also very clarifying because as part of that settlement in wisconsin, we have also learned new details about what that fake electors plot looked like behind the scenes, and those details are damning especially for republicans, especially for donald trump. in one set of text exchanges, one of the fake electors refers

to the whole plot as a possible steal, as in what we're trying to do here is steal an election. specifically while discussing the logistics of the plot the fake elector says they don't want to have a technicality mesup the possible steal. and then in case you were wondering the fake elector then clarifies that by they he means the republican party of wisconsin and trump's lawyers. oh, okay. just to be clear. another person on the text chain asks how do you feel about all of this. and that same fake elector replies i feel like i'll have to do it otherwise there'll be a target on my back in my own district. got to tow the trump line otherwise -- sound familiar, kevin mccarthy? in this wisconsin settlement it is clear that trump's team and the national republican party were all over this fake electors plot in ways we did not perhaps truly understand. here's another text message from

a wisconsin republican party insider. on a phone call with rudy g., he's saying to all the states no heads up to any media on electors meetings. rudy g. says no press of the sham election certification? got that? in another exchange another elector laments apparently ken chesebro is inviting himself to this thing. and sure enough these new pictures show trump lawyer slash skunk at the garden party ken chesebro in the room overseeing the fake electors plot in wisconsin, snapping pictures like it was a birthday party and not a coordinated attempt to overthrow democracy. the trump team was apparently so involved in this plot in wisconsin that they provided private security to the fake electors as they gathered together to pretend certify votes for donald trump. so today we are finally seeing the consequences here for all of this. there are settlements. there are statements, there are

investigations. there are trial dates. all of these things are finally happening, and none of it looks particularly good for donald trump and his alis. the more we learn about these players and plots across the country, the more we see directly team trump appears to have been involved. which is why today in georgia we learned fulton county district attorney fani willis plans to call some of trump's inner circle to the witness stand in her case against donald trump. and that includes trump's vice president mike pence, his former attorney general bill barr, and his former, current strategist steve bannon called to the witness stand to testify under oath. joining me now is andrew weissman, former senior member of mueller's special council and co-host of the podcast "overseeing donald trump." i see the names bill barr and

steve bannon, and my first question is how realistic is it we're going to see these folks on the witness stand down in georgia? >> well, i'm less interested in georgia because there's no trial date. so it is -- it is realistic that they would be called when there is a trial date. and if there is a trial date before the election. if it is after the election -- >> there's no chance. >> well, it's really going to be a question of who wins that election, which is -- i do think that the real question for those three is whether they'll be called in the federal case. and there mike pence for sure will be a witness. i think bill barr also will be a witness. and regardless of the baggage, and they have significant baggage in terms of their towing the line for the trump administration. in many ways that makes them better witnesses in terms of their credibility. and as i've said about mike pence is he is both a really devastating witness and also an

exhibit because you can compare somebody who had the exact same interest as donald trump who is on the ballot, who had every interest if there was fraud in the election to say it, who's modeling what you do in this country when you lose, i mean this is like -- this is what parents -- any normal parent is teaching, you know, a child, which is if you lose, that's it. it's over. you take -- >> this is how you lose. >> right, exactly. and so i think he'll have quite a struggle with this. i think the same is true with bill barr especially given how much he did for donald trump, and certainly other people in the mueller investigation are very aware of how much he did. but there's a line he was not willing to cross as well. >> given it scope over the next few days jack smith would like to bring in the federal trial presumably in march i would

assume some justice department officials will be on his list for witnesses as well, as they are on fani willis' list. i did not realize because i didn't go to law school that if you are even a former doj official, you need the approval of the present-day justice department in order to testify. is that an awkward position for merrick garland to be in given how desperate trump is to have a through line between the biden administration, the biden justice department, and the federal investigation? >> i don't think so. because it's so relatively automatic. this is not something where, yes, you do need to have approval under something called the 2heregs. >> i knew there was going to be a garcia, some kind of reference point. >> but it is not that hard. and it is also the kind of thing merrick garland could delegate

and say i'm going to give it to an apolitical, a nonpolitical member of the department to make that decision. in a case like this it would always be granted. what you're really trying to do is avoid someone being called where it's harassing or no relevance. but here could you really imagine that mike pence or jeffrey rosen, the acting attorney general, doesn't have relevant information. they've actually already testified before congress, so we know what they're going to say in large part. so, of course, they'll be given permission. so i don't think -- of course, donald trump will use all of this, but this is one where you have to just ignore that. >> i would argue a lot of it could be ignored because it is all political in any case, almost all political. i do want to get your reaction to these fake elector plots being effectively dismantled all over the country. there's actually the legal --

the nuts and bolts of jack smith's legal argument here but also the court of public opinion. and to see the state a.g.'s or these civil suits end in settlements, end in admissions of if not wrongdoing, fraud, saying joe biden is actually the winner of this, we should have never done this, this was a fake electors plot and nothing else? how meaningful is that for jack smith as we barrel towards that march 4th date? >> so i think that's a great question because i was thinking about sort of how to explain this. because when you think about big picture, the big picture is you have ten electors who said what we did was wrong, that we are not real electors, that joe biden won, that we were told to sign up only as a contichancy, that this was not going to be advanced unless and until the wisconsin supreme court ruled in our favor, and we were misled. so that's just big picture. you know, a good thing for the public to know because we're in

this -- this state of the world where it's like 2 plus 2 doesn't equal 4 necessarily. >> to have fake electors themselves say this was a steal seems meaningful. >> exactly. now, on a legal front i think one of the more relevant things -- and a shout out to mary mccord because she was one of the leading lawyers in the civil case. that's what she does when she's not working on this podcast. >> it's a full time job that podcast. >> exactly. just to be serious, this is such an important case because you have ten people who are saying they will fully cooperate, who are saying we were misled by who? people in the trump campaign. and you know who the chief person is? chesebro. >> yes. he's in the room with them. i was shocked to see him by the way masked in a room as the fake electors do their fake certifies taking photos. you cannot have more direct engagement than that. >> just to be clear there's a

defense here for people which was i didn't know i was a fake elector, i thought i was a contingent elector. which if the supreme court of the state said we're now real, that the election was for trump, then we were ready. that's sort of the defense to a criminal charge. chesebro doesn't have that because he was going to use these electors no matter what. you know one of the ways we know that? on the 14th of december the wisconsin supreme court rules against trump and says this is frivolous. and on the 15th kenneth chesebro is saying let's use this and orchestrates getting these to washington so they can be used even though the wisconsin supreme court had said you lost. >> in defiance of the court. >> exactly. so he is -- that is blatant on his part. >> the fact that the trump campaign is supplying security here, the fact that rudy giuliani is literally directing them not to have press in the

room for these fake costume certifications, if you will? that all seems like damning evidence directly connecting these state level plots to overturn the election or the results of the election to trump hq. if you're jack smith you probably know all of this anyway. i would imagine it strengthens your hand. do you imagine that some of this material is going to come up in his case? >> absolutely. what he's going to want to do is show this was an orchestrated scheme from headquarters. in other words, it's coming from washington. this was not growing up sort of innately from the states seeing something wrong was happening. in fact, in nevada where we just saw criminal indictments, there wasn't even a lawsuit at the time so they basically -- the charge is they sort of manufactured that so they could say, oh, we're doing this because there's this lawsuit. but that was cart before the horse. so that is definitely going to be part of the march trial jack smith has orchestrated.

>> what it feel like is kind of like the walls -- is it the walls or closing in or like the three dimensions or meeting? right. you have the state level investigations and trials and settlements to some degree. you have the federal investigation looming in the not so distant future. and then you have the prosecution over at the d.a.'s office in fulton county. there's a lot of overlap in these three arenas, and we know that trump's team down in georgia is asking to have access to some of jack smith's material up in washington, d.c. the georgia folks for trump are saying we need access to it, we may subpoena it. i mean what is the likelihood you're going to see more of an exchange of material between what's happening in georgia is what's happening in washington given the sort of common threads in those two indictments? >> so i think that there's no question that jack smith is going to want to give to the

defense in the federal case everything that is relevant, anything that is potentially exculpatory, anything that is potentially impeaching, and i am sure fani willis is going to want to do the same thing. that is required under the local rule and due process. it doesn't matter that it's donald trump or, you know, john doe or andrew weissman. that's what a defendant is entitled to. i also think there's an overlap already in terms of the information both districts, the federal and the state have. to be fair donald trump is going to have that because he's a defendant in both. so he may get it in the federal case. so he knows -- it's not like he's going to be sitting there going, gee, i wonder what's going to happen in the federal case. but for the moment i think the key thing because there's no trial date in georgia is really keep on focusing on the d.c. case. do they have all the discovery?

is there anything that could possibly delay that case? >> and actually can you answer that? i, myself, was very interested in these sort of pending decisions from the d.c. circuit court over presidential immunity. i know you were, too. you dedicated a lot of your beautiful podcast to it. do you foresee any major speed bumps? i shouldn't say speed bumps, but do you see challenges on the road ahead for judge chutkan because as you say this federal case in d.c. may be the last best shot to hold trump accountable for january 6th. >> right. and for the public to have access to and see all the evidence and be able to assess that before the election. so two thoughts. one is i do think that the d.c. circuit will act quickly. the big unknown, which i can't answer is the supreme court of the united states, whether they have enough votes to issue a stay.

i will hazard a guess that because, i think the presidential immunity claim is so weak here, it's hard to see there's going to be enough votes to say we're going to stay this case. and part of that is i think judge chutkan is doing something very smart. by starting the jury selection essentially now, she is making sure that the appellate courts, the d.c. circuit, and the supreme court understand you can't just turn around and say, okay, now you can start, that getting a jury takes months. so if you start putting this trial off, it's not like the jurors just wait in the wings. she may have to start all over again, which will be a de facto pushing it off until after the election. and i don't think although this is a guess, that there will be enough votes on the supreme court to have that happen. >> i see you kind of like almost closed your eyes as you made a prediction about the roberts court, which is what i think everyone does at this point.

we don't think they're that crazy. >> because you feel it in your heart more that you think it's so important to the nation to have the trial. >> oh, yes, without question. and this court is, well, somewhat predictable. we will see. andrew weissman, it is a thrill and honor to have you on the set, my friend. thank you, andrew. coming up it is fight night in the state of alabama for republican presidential candidates took to the debate stage and tried to on it. plus kevin mccarthy is leaving congress. he said in his brief time as speaker he, quote, rose to the challenge and did the right thing, which sounds exactly what kevin mccarthy thinks of kevin mccarthy. congressman jamie raskin joins me to weigh in on all of that. that's coming up next. in on all. that's coming up next. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older.

arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy.

i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers?

did we peak your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening.

today the congressman who bragged to reporters i never quit, today that man called it quits. with more than half his term remaining. and when he quit he said this. >> thank you from the bottom of my heart. we did our part.

when the stakes were the highest, we rose to the challenge. we were willing to risk it all no matter the odds, no matter the personal cost. simply put, we did the right thing. >> simply put, we did the right thing. that is kevin mccarthy's legacy according to kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy's legacy according to the facts involves normalizing an attempted coup and bargaining away the dignity of the speakership. perhaps the most consequential thing was not even as speaker. a few weeks after the insurrection on the capitol, mccarthy traveled down to mar-a-lago to have dinner with donald trump. in so doing mccarthy effectively brought trump back into the good graces of the party and set the stage for his political comeback. in her new book liz cheney explains why mccarthy made that fateful trip. the truth was pretty simple. kevin mccarthy went to mar-a-lago because his ability to raise money had dried up

after january 6th. kevin needed money. trump had lists of small dollar donors, but kevin would have to go beg trump for them. and in order to use those lists, kevin would have to help donald trump cover up the stain of his assault on our democracy. it was a price kevin mccarthy was willing to pay. joining me now was congressman jamie raskin, democrat from maryland, former member of the january 6th committee and ranking member of the house oversight committee. congressman raskin, thank you so much for being here tonight. i wonder what you make of kevin mccarthy's closing words about his legacy when the stakes were the highest, we rose to the challenge, simply put we did the right thing. what do you think of those? go ahead. >> he clearly did the wrong thing, and when stakes were highest he completely fell apart. the only part i agree with is when he says he risked it all, which is true if all means our

democracy, our constitution, and the american republic. i mean this is a guy who called donald trump from his office on january 6th, which was besieged by insurrectionists and begged trump to call off the dogs he'd unleashed on them. and trump true to form said those are not my people, that's antifa. and mccarthy knew they weren't. he said these are your people, mr. president. and trump said to him maybe they care a bit more about a fair election than you do, kevin. and unlike liz cheney and adam kinzinger and eight other house republicans who also lived through that experience who voted to impeach trump for inciting and leading that insurrection, kevin mccarthy just put his tail between his legs and voted no. he did briefly blame it on trump saying that trump had to take responsibility for it. but within days as liz says in her book was like a puppy dog

clamoring for more money down in mar-a-lago. he showed no backbone. he showed no courage. and he said, well, rather than impeach and support the trial of donald trump, he would support an independent outside 9/11-style commission made up of five republicans, five democrats with equal subpoena power on both sides. and our negotiator, benny thompson, agreed to that. even though we were majority in the house he said we'll do it 50-50. and when trump said there will no investigation of january 6th mccargy withdrew his own proposal and then tried today sabotage the house select committee, which nancy pelosi setup in the absence of a bipartisan independent outside investigation. and then later after biden was elected, although he couldn't bring himself to support the impeachment of donald trump for inciting a violent insurrection,

which almost got even kevin mccarthy killed, he decided to support an impeachment investigation against joe biden for nothing, without even identifying a potential crime. so i say good riddance to him. he did nothing for his country or his constitution and at its moment of crisis. >> you mention the house impeachment investigation into joe biden, and i believe house republicans are preparing for an official vote on that next week. do you -- do you have an expectation as to what is going to come of that? and is there anything democrats should prepare to do in advance of it? >> well, remember that all the republicans do now is fractureicidal, end expulsions, end impeachments, end

resignations and censure motions. that's what it's come to. it's an utterly can ballistic group of people there. so they're going after joe biden after 10 months of investigation, which has produced overwhelming evidence that there's no crime, much less a crime at the level of high crime and misdemeanor under the constitution. they can't even identify what they're looking for anymore. it is, you know, completely theater of the absurd. they -- they have to get every republican. we know congressman ken buck, who's a serious lawyer, who was head of the criminal division of the u.s. attorney's office in colorado, he's totally opposed to it. he's looked at it and knows they're not alleging a crime against joe biden and there's no evidence. and whatever you say about hunter biden, he's not president of the united states and has never been a public official. and he's already got a special counsel dealing with his case.

so there's nothing there, and the serious lawyers know that. so we believe that there are more than a dozen republicans in biden districts who will be thinking very hard about casting this vote. it could be a career terminating event for them if they get pulled into it. the problem is the republicans have nothing else going on, and they want to continue to build their political house of cards on an absolute mirage and illusion. >> when we talk about illusions, the republicans have become so obsessed with the sort of meta-narrative, the investigation of the investigations, that it defies anything i've seen in my very long lifetime here. i am astounded to see that jim jordan is now launching an investigation into faunae willis' communications and sort of, if you will, document

sharing with the january 6th committee. you were on the january 6th committee. i'm sure you've been following what's been happening in fulton county, as we all have. what do you imagine jim jordan is going to find when he looks into the relationship of the fulton county d.a.'s office and the january 6th committee? >> well, if they get some of the documents, of course, it will reveal that what took place i assume because i wasn't involved in it is what takes place every single day all over the country, which is different law enforcement entities and prosecutors share information that they have. i mean it's not that shocking, but of course jim jordan who, by the way, still has not responded to our subpoena and has violated our subpoena and would have been held in contempt of congress if we had had some more time. but in any event jim jordan has decided that he is going to use the congressional investigative

powers to go after state and local law enforcement or -- and federal law enforcement if they interfere with his guru master donald trump. and so it's an utterly lawless situation where they elevate one guy who of course has been found guilty of sexual assault in civil court in new york and defaming the woman he sexually assaulted and found guilty in civil court in new york of committing civil fraud and inflating the values of his different real estate properties and who has 92 federal and state felony criminal charges against him. they want to elevate him above the rule of law, and so they will attack any prosecutor, any law enforcement official, any cop who they think gets in his way just like they didn't care about the 150 capitol officers and d.c. mech mallten police department officers who were

bloodied and wounded and hospitalized by the insurrectionists who donald trump sent to capitol hill according to the department of justice this week. so we're looking at a party, which the way most authoritarian parties do, describes itself as pro law and order actually wrapping itself around criminality. and if you look at the people donald trump is pardoning from d'souza to michael flynn to roger stone, the inner political circle of his campaign are criminals who he has pardoned. >> congressman jamie raskin putting it all in perspective. thank you for your time tonight. it's great to have you on the program. >> thank you, alex. coming up later this hour, on-stage bullying is apparently the republican debate strategy of the hour. my friend and colleague jen psaki joins me to break all of that down. and later freed hostages are

furious with benjamin netanyahu over his war strategy in gaza. what happened inside their meeting is coming up. g up "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it.

keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling.

moments ago las vegas law enforcement officials gave the first real details about the shooting at the university of nevada, las vegas this afternoon. police confirm that three victims of the day's shooting

has died. one more victim remains hospitalizedmism earlier today that victim was in critical cession, but they since have been upgraded to stable. multiple others have been taken to hospitals for panic attacks caused by today's shooting. police also confirm they know the identity of the shooter and can confirm the shooter is also deceased. police are not releasing any information about the shooter until the shooter's next of kin is notified. now, three law enforcement sources tell nbc news tonight that the suspect in question was a man in his 60s, but we have no indication yet of the suspect's motive. we also do not yet know what type of gun was used in today's attack. police have so far declined to comment. but we do know at 11:45 a.m. local time this morning the shooter started an attack on the fourth floor of a building at the university of nevada las vegas. the shooter then went to multiple other floors before being confronted by police outside the building where the shooter ultimately died.

just hours before all of that unfolded, democrats on capitol hill introduced a new assault weapons ban in the senate, and here was the republican response. >> americans have a constitutional right to own a firearm. every day people across wyoming responsibly use their second amendment rights to keep and to bear arms. today is about defending those rights against those on the other side of the aisle who wish to take them away from us. >> republican senator john barrasso's objection blocked the democrat's unanimous consent motion to pass the first assault weapons ban since the last one expired in the year 2004. it was one of three-pieces of gun reform legislation brought by republicans in the senate today just hours before that shooting in las vegas. and if you are wondering what the odds are that gun reform

legislation would be blocked by republicans on the same day as a mass shooting, well, unfortunately the odds are very, very high. >> so far our nation has experienced this year 630 mass shootings. now, this is day number 340 in the year 2023. so 340 days, 630 mass shootings. that's nearly as many -- twice as many mass shootings as we've seen to date. >> just last friday there was another mass shooting in las vegas. that day five men were shot at a homeless encampment about 20 minutes from today's shooting. and one of the witnesses of that mass shooting on friday was also a witness to today's mass shooting. >> i mean they just shot the

five homeless people over there on charleston a week ago, and i was in the parking lot over there, and i was there when it happened because i was on my way to work. but this i was just getting coffee and i just seen people just running everywhere. you know, it was a matter of time. it's a gun thing all over the united states. >> it was a matter of time. there are so many mass shootings in america that the odds are not even that incredible that you could witness one or two in a single week. there are so many mass shootings in america that republicans could have objected to gun reform legislation any day this year and odds are there would have been a mass shooting on the same day. that is how common these are. and republicans still refuse to do anything about it. still ahead tonight, republican presidential hopefuls look to the debate stage for the fourth time this cycle.

msnbc's jen psaki will join me to preview what happened on that stage and whether any of the candidates has a fighting chance of being anywhere close to the prohibitive front-runner, donald trump. prohibitive front-runner, donald trump. ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply.

all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime r keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling.

this should be tucker carlson, row roggin, and elon musk. we'd have ten times the viewership asking the questions

voters actually care about and bringing them into our party. you think democrats would actually hire greg gutfeld to host a democratic debate? they wouldn't do it. chris, i want to use this time because this is actually about you and the media and the corrupt media establishment. ask you the trump mead russia media hoax you pushed for years was that real or made up hillary clinton misinformation? answer the question, go. >> that was vivek ramaswamy, the man rupping to be republican nominee for president of the united states going after the moderator of the last republican debate, our own kristen welker from nbc. we saw more of the same this evening as the republican presidential field minus donald trump publicly sparred once again during their fourth and final debate of this year. joining me now is my friend and colleague, jen psaki, of course host of msnbc's "inside with jen

psaki." thank you for being here and watching this debate so we did not have to. >> you're welcome for that. >> it is a national service you're doing for us all. what is happening? i've been getting drips and drabs during commercial breaks and it sounds even uglier than the previous two debates. >> that is right, alex. you just played a clip i think from a month ago where we all watched and thought this is going off the rails and a little obnoxious and rude. and this debate tonight i think made the last one look like it was hunky-dory and everyone was holding hands and singing kumbaya together. vivek ramaswamy took the gloves off more than he has done in the past and he called nikki haley said she was corrupt and went after her again and again. what does that tell jow?

and also ron desantis went after nikki haley they think is the one going to beat all of them and be the alternative to trump. that's what it tells you. chris christie actually went after trump more than anyone else, not a ton but went after him more. and he kind of called out some of these attacks including from vireck ramaswamy against nikki haley during the debate as well. there was a crazy moment -- i mean there were a lot of things crazy in the debate. vivek ramaswamy actually said january 6th was an inside job. >> wow. >> we shouldn't miss a moment like that inasmuch some of the things said by these candidates insluding that specifically should be alarming to anyone. >> let's talk about the dynamic between nikki haley and the rest of the field. she's come out swinging in previous debates that's helped her rise in the polls and in

some circles seen as the most viable never-trumper that could potentially steal the baton from donald trump though she is i think 45 points behind him. how was she on the debate stage this evening? >> pretty self-controlled i would say. she was getting absolutely pummeled by vivek ramaswamy, by ron desantis over and over again about everything about who can be more anti-trans, to how corrupt they said she was, to whether she was soft on china and how much she was like joe biden and hillary clinton. there was a lot thrown at her. there were moments where she punched back, but there were moments when she was restrain. and my bet is she knows she's on the up, she's climbing on the up. she's still far behind trump. as you said it's a very tricky path for her to actually beat him. but in terms of the candidates on the stage she's most on the rise. the most interesting thing that happened is when chris christie

came to her defense against vivek ramaswamy and talked about all her time in service. i don't know -- i mean that was the right thing to do but it's hard to calculate exactly what he's trying to do there. >> yes, and it's not sure nikki haley wants a bear hug from chris christie, right? >> i'm not sure. it was kind of a nice moment but, yes, she may or may not. she was kind of smiling while he was doing it. >> yes. with friends like this i think for nikki haley it's a very, very careful line to tread, right? you've got to be sufficiently pro-maga, but you don't want to be too pro-maga you alieniate the never trumpers and chris christie. >> what they attacked her on, alex, over and over again was the business ties and business owners as if she was a person who was now completely tied to them, which they know the maga base does not necessarily love that. >> yes, they would rather have their governors fights the biggest businesses in their

state like ron desantis does. jen psaki, my friend, i'm sorry our time together was short. please come back and spend the whole hour with me if you can. i know you're going to be hosting the debate coverage in the official youtube channel, aka, the future. thank you, my friend. when we come back, still ahead tonight what happened when prime minister netanyahu met with recently freed hostages and their family member. we're going to have all the details on that explosive meeting coming up next. that ex meeting coming up next

goli, taste your goals.

today marked some of the heaviest fighting between israel and hamas since the war began. israeli troops now operating in the heart the main city in southern gaza. hundreds of thousands of palestinians who fled to the area after it was a safe zone are now being told to evacuate even further south. the desperation in gaza has put pressure on prime minister netanyahu who was being criticized both domestically and

internationally. at a recent meeting of israel's war cabinet newly freed hostages accused netanyahu of putting their lives in danger. in leaked audio recordings one former hostage says every day in captivity was extremely challenging. we were in tunnels terrified that it would not be hamas but israel that would kill us, and then they would say hamas killed you. another freed hostage whose husband remains in captivity said to netanyahu, my husband was separated from us three days before we returned to israel, and he was taken to the tunnels. and you're talking about flooding the tunnels with seawater. you're bombing tunnel routes where exactly they, the hostages, are located. in response netanyahu offered, "there is a substantial effort to gather evidence and reach everyone. the question is how to bring everyone back." but those words were met with heckage. at one point several family members of the hostages shouted

at netanyahu repeatedly yelling the word "shame." meanwhile, president biden who is showing nearly un-parallel support throughout this crisis has not spoken to netanyahu in ten days. in the arab world protesters in bahrain, jordan, and morocco demanded their governments cut ties with israel. in egypt they gathered in the square, the birthplace of egypt's uprising. all of this has created significant destabilizization not just the humanitarian catastrophe in gaza but political tensions throughout the region. as "the new york times" reports, the war in gaza has not only laid bare a chasm between many arab leaders and their people, it has widened it. that's our show tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. 17 minutes without discussing the guy who has all